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123977-okay-carbine-how-long-do-you-plan-on-keeping-pvp-servers-up
Content ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- There's an argument to be made for simply using one server to spin open PVP instances for people who choose that option instead of a separate server for PVP alone. That's not really mine to make, though. I agree with you that PVP people need to weigh in on this a bit more. I think most would rather have the server saved from what I've heard, but who knows? | |} ---- Sure, but I guess that's probably a not-easy tech change that might take a while. | |} ---- No it isn't. When we were talking about having a separate version of a zone for RP people, it was explained to me that the server does not really like, or just can't make a 2nd instance of a map with different server rules. The best would just be a very large BG, and that really isn't open world pvp. | |} ---- Well, the other option is going to involve merging the two auction houses and CXs, as well as figuring out a new world PVP system. I don't think I'm qualified to assume which is worse on labor time, but they need to do something and they can't really afford to do the wrong one. | |} ---- Shutting down the PvP server is easy, though. That they could do almost immediately. Or again, add something so that new players are steered toward the PvE servers. Either of those options is quicker, but I know it isn't great for those who want to stick it out on the PvP servers. | |} ---- Well, also recall that we do have some percentage of players on the PVE server right now who want to play on a PVP server. If they're planning on shutting down the PVP server, they had BETTER have their plan well vocalized first and have the PVP community on board. Sylqt spent a lot of time trying to save those servers and has been gracious about accepting the current state of affairs, so I imagine that people like Sylqt deserve a say in what happens, or at the very least needs to know exactly what's going on well before it happens and what the timeline is to getting the new server to spin up open PVP zones. | |} ---- Definitely. Which is why I think my voice is very small in this conversation. However, it seems like right now what is happening is people are logging on, picking the PvP server, and then bailing on the game. The hurts everyone :( | |} ---- As an avid pvper who continues to stick with warhound until it dies, I am positive that everyone would like one of these to happen: 1. Cross server CX/AH 2. Just do a Ultra-Megaserver Merge It doesn't bring positive light to the game when people are returning keeps asking "where is everyone" and one guild exists in the whole server. The PVP people on entity wants an incentive to get back onto a PVP server. Really. The only difference between warhound and entity is open world pvp. That's it. PVP people are willing to sacrifice open world pvp, so they can play on active server with people. --- If they do shut down the Warhound server, this would only bring more bad press to Wildstar. | |} ---- Well, that's why we would want the PVP people to speak out on the issue. Those two options, merging the two servers somehow and spinning off PVP instances for PVP players or merging the exchanges, are very different in practice. It's important to know which. I imagine the status quo isn't how they're planning on continuing forward unless they know something I don't. However, I think the PVPers need to have that conversation first, and decide whether it would be better to merge the servers with an open PVP option or whether to just merge the exchanges and attempt to continue on with two servers. | |} ---- We tried to talk about this issue during the townhall. The generic carbine dev response along the lines of "we are looking into it". | |} ---- ---- Well they generally are looking into everything. That doesn't mean you don't necessarily want to continue giving feedback or ideas on potential improvements. There's a lot they can't definitively say they're doing until they're almost to the point of no return, just in case they have to double back. So you're for shutting it down, but effectively keeping it in practice rather than integration into a single megaserver? | |} ---- Many PVPers are very disgruntle at the carbine devs. We tried to provide feedback, but the slow executions and responses just made many give up this game, or currently trying their freaking best to continue to stay sub to this game. This sums up the thought of all the PVPers: 95% PVE and 5% PVP. | |} ---- ---- While I understand your disgruntled stance, I am trying to provide a service by helping to vocalize feedback in a non-disgruntled way. I've been doing that since launch. So I'd appreciate the PVP community's opinions on the best way forward of the options presented. That's why the PVP conversation need to take place. We're all agreeing in the broad strokes that one of these two things should happen. However, only one of these two things can happen. So do they kill the PVP server and figure out a way to spin a PVP server off the new main server, or do they keep the PVP server and try to redistribute the population? The reason I ask is because the exchanges are one stated reason people left. The other (the reason the big raiding guilds that were on the PVP servers shifted) was the raiding population. I heard a lot that there should be cross-realm guilds, circles, etc. So would it just be easier to put everyone on the same server and just spin off world PVP versions of world zones from that server? Or is it better to keep the populations otherwise separate? | |} ---- 1. It was suggested to provide incentives for open world PVP (more prestige, xp for kill) Problem: the server is a ghost town and many PVPers don't like PVE in the first place. 2. Someone said to make pvp area within different zones Problem: the PVE server is meant for PVE. Vocal PVE players will try to reject this idea. The raiding guilds on the PVP server were basically PVX guilds. They were the backbone of the server economy, the people in those guilds provide resources for the economy. When they slowly left, the server economy just begin pooping bricks. People and some currently still do (like me) have mules that transfers items back and forth between servers. Some consider this is just a hassle for a game, and simply transferred to Entity. People suggested something similar to DC universe online, where the zone can be phase into pvp instances or something like that. I haven't played the game, so i dunno much. | |} ---- ---- Well, that's why I ask, because having a game spinning open world PVP instances might be really useful for that reason. You don't need to bridge across servers at that point (there would only be one), but the instances the server spins can be different. Such as, there can be a LevianBayPVE and LevianBayPVP, and you could actually get different bits on them. They can actually be completely different as you'd like, but that wouldn't preclude people from essentially joining guilds together or sharing the same exchanges. Then you don't need to spend the time working on building ways to cross-communicate or transfer items, they'd all be on the same server. The biggest issue is phasing and making the connections work. Obviously, since the major cities are ALWAYS the same (there's no neutral site Thayd), the server would have to spin you up a PVP version of Whitevale the second you stepped into it if you're set up to be PVP, and PVE if you're set up to be PVE. At the very least, the option would be there. However, that might be the central issue that might make the PVP population skew to the side of having their own server. That makes open world PVP optional throughout. There might also be issues with phasing on the single megaserver, because that means that a person in open world PVP still might not be able to help a PVE player until he leaves the zone, makes sure he's back to being parsed into PVE, then returns. The only other way would be to allow people to simply phase into and out of PVP in real time, but that could be a huge issue with the practice of world PVP. I vaguely remember bringing this idea up before and it wasn't appreciated by the PVP population of the time. I'm something of a pragmatist, but I understand that having a PVP server means something to PVPers. I understand that because I rolled on Evindra, and I thought there should be three megaservers, PVE, PVP, and RP. I thought that because I was initially worried about RP being trolled at every opportunity. Frankly, I was being a little overconcerned; there are trolls but not any more than there were on Evindra. Still, it's worthwhile to ask, I think, to know whether people would be willing to take that step, get rid of the PVP server entirely, and put us all on the same server but with PVP instances able to be switched on and off from a permanently uncontested site like Thayd. | |} ---- I think if the time is taken to develop the tech to do this, then it will be too late. I think really the only options are -keep it the way it is and try to get the word out to new players who get frustrated with low pop on PvP server that PvE is more populated -shut down the PvP servers This assumes that there is a critical problem that must be solved immediately, which I think is the perspective of OP. | |} ---- I understand the frustration. The thing to keep in mind is that at the very least the PvP design team was replaced IIRC in December. Whatever the PvP team was working on had to stop while the new guys evaluated where they were and developed plans for where they're going. No clue how many engineering resources had to change as well. No matter how you slice it the large changes people were demanding just weren't possible in the timeframe expected. You guys have every right to be angry at Carbine, that change should have been made much sooner but it's been made and things are happening just not right this instant. Assuming that they are sufficiently staffed additional resources are only going to slow them down. As much as I wish they were capable of delivering everything they need to in Drop 5 I know there's no silver bullet that can accelerate a schedule without severe consequences (remember Sabotage?). | |} ---- Their immediate steps are going to be very different depending on which way to go, though. Relaunching the PVP servers would put them in the same boat, and might not solve all their problems regardless. However, if they're planning on developing the tech to do it (essentially installing new "instances" of the zones as currently existing, enabling open PVP on them, installing a switch, and writing into the parsing language how all this works) then shutting down the server is less of a problem. But they'd have to tell people what's coming; shutting down the PVP server is a step from which there may be no recovery. Redirecting people so they know what the population shift is might be a better option if they plan to keep it open. At least people would know what they'd be getting into. However, the bridgework necessary to make the PVP server work isn't short change either as far as coding time goes, especially if they want PVX players to see the PVP server as a viable option. There aren't many rewards that would convince people to take a server with that much of a population gap and without any way to play or group with existing PVE players. Indeed, the most likely entrants now are being "recruited" into the game by other PVE players, so you'd need a HUGE en masse migration to kick start the PVP server again. I'm not sure just merging the exchanges and increasing PVP gains is going to be enough incentive. They're going to need differentiated zones anyway, as far as I'm concerned, to give people any reason to play there at all. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- We tell people that already; Hell, we've got people here that say there's nobody playing Wildstar period, which is wonderful if people actually want players in the game. The publicity can't get an awful lot worse. | |} ---- Can we name it Darkwitch? I'm still disappointed we lost that vote to Entity anyway. That's such a disappointing name for a server. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- I think differentiating between PVP and PVE might be a bit more worthwhile, and this is coming from a roleplayer who backed that idea originally. I mean, there just aren't enough of us that having an RP-only shard exclusively to separate chatter matters. And we haven't really been trolled as much as I initially assumed we would. Either way, it's probably much more worth developing the tech to do that for PVP and PVE, where the actual mechanics and even zone elements might be drastically different. | |} ---- ---- Honestly, if I had my way, they would figure out a way to split open PVP instances and install that switch. I do have a few friends who are Warhound refugees, and while I want them to have whatever solution makes them happy, my personal preference is for them to not leave. A server, in the age of megaserver technology, seems like such a PITA division if there are other options. I mean, if there are no other options, that's fine. But I keep thinking about the EU people that I know and would love to play with, but can't for realistic reasons. If it's feasible to keep everyone on one server in a way that scales better whether the population is low or high, I know that's how most of the Entity people I know feel about it. And I was very worried about megaserver implementation having come from Evindra. Now I kind of get the rationale behind it. The less servers you have while keeping pings down and gameplay stable, the less imbalance is possible. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Expansion pack - you know... New race, class, level increase, etc. Drop =/= Expansion | |} ---- ---- ---- Well that certainly isn't true. | |} ---- ---- If you are waiting for an expansion you may as well quit playing. It took GW2 2.5 years to put out an expansion, and that game is doing great. Carbine can hardly keep up with the current drops what makes you think they can just release an expansion? You can't seriously believe that your server is doing well or that even the game is doing well. 1000 people or even 10000 people is NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. The people who are killing the game are the ones who are against F2P, the ones who think waiting like we have been for 6 months now will bring people back, the ones who encourage the devs to make the game look even smaller by taking down one of 2 servers left. | |} ---- There's no way carbine marketing team can create a positive spin on this issue, if they close or merge the servers. At the same time, it's not good to have new and returning players with the trials coming back to a dead server, asking or posting "is this game dead yet/f2p/doom/gloom" threads. But don't worry Drop 5 the all-miracle-cure-elixer PVP patch is on the way. It's gonna make PVP better guys! Game is getting better! Just wait, drop 6 more PVP stuff. Oh man this game getting so much content Wanna wait for drop 7? It's only near the end of the year! it's gonna get better! | |} ---- ---- I see you Nyoro trying to derail a thread thats about resource allocation with another f2p thread. Please don't give in and make the mods lock another useful thread where actual dialogue can occur. | |} ---- ---- I'm not "trying to derail" it, the only logical explanation for these servers still existing is that they expect them to fill up. In their current situation, those servers are doing nothing but harm to the game, so if they wanted to improve the health of the game they would have removed them; but it's obvious they have some other plan for them. | |} ---- Or maybe they, yknow, are hoping that as they fix things people will drift back. Leaving a megaserver open, even an empty-ish one, doesn't mean they're planning to change the business model. As crappy as it is, I agree that it might be best for now to just put Warhound down for a while and use some sort of phasing system or something for the PvP-lovers. While I love and miss WPvP myself, it's not really worth having a whole server for right now. | |} ---- Hoping that people would come back and play again if you improved the game is something mmo developers used to try in the late noughties; needless to say it didn't work. These days when people want a failed mmo to have loads of players they just... well you know what it is they do. | |} ---- ---- ---- Yep, exactly what I think carb should do too. 100% flagged zone, so pve'ers can't complain. Make it a separate endgame with rewards that are useful for pvp, the faction on the server and various other things. Make there be objectives, such as capturable nodes, rewards for kills, capture the flag events... the possibilities are endless, and maybe they could be an alternative to the daily grind once in a while. The only qualm I have with this is the pure imbalance of factions right now. On Jabbit, we would get steamrolled by exiles because the number of them is so big. Ofc us Dominion are hella more classy and skillful but yaknow. | |} ---- ---- They should just add PvP lakes in the same manner as WAR. Players would be dropped to the max level of that zone (plus ilvl reduced) when they enter it and lower level players would be bolstered. Additionally all skills and amps that were unavailable at that level would need to be locked. Dreadmoor would be the 20-30 zone MurkMire would be the 31-40 zone Halon Ring would be the 41-49 zone they could make a new zone for level 50. Boom, now people can world PvP, and they don't need to keep the dead PvP servers open. Additionally no one cares about seeing more PvE zones, we've got enough of them already that barely anyone goes to. | |} ---- ---- The word "simply" does not apply here to Carbine. Whatever PVP suggestions and ideas anyone bring up takes at least 6 months+ to implement. -_- | |} ---- Because they are already budgeted / have the tech in place to keep it active. It will most likely cost them more to bring the server down / bring it back up later than it would to just leave it active for the foreseeable future. | |} ---- ---- They don't have the technology to copy characters across servers. PTR | |} ---- Auto updating, or just allowing the characters to log into whichever server they like? It's not a bad idea (it might still not help PVP players who would still have to jump back to the PVE server to handle exchange issues). But I can't for certain say that would be the most code-intensive fix. If it's quick enough that it can be temporarily inserted while they implement a more permanent fix, it might help. | |} ---- ---- They kinda did in beta when EU servers went live ;) | |} ---- Well, they don't have to be copies. There is an argument to be made for the hitherto unexplored option of simply moving the character data outside the server and allowing us to log in by whim to whichever server we prefer. I mean, there are technical issues galore, but of the options presented, where is that not the case? | |} ---- I know, I was just being sarcastic there. | |} ---- Theres a thread in in the PVP forum I started talking about this kind of zone. I think it would be great having non instanced content that the whole server could constantly work on. | |} ---- I know. If it means anything, we've been bringing this suggestion up every month since release. | |} ---- Wanna bet that pvers will complain they can not PvE, PvP content :P | |} ---- Meh. The solution to that is to have PvE monsters in there that need to be killed, as a group. PvE and PvP interaction in a modern MMO should be fluid and compatible. | |} ---- I'm glad there is support for this type of content in Wildstar. Most endgame content is instanced and completed within your guild. This would make guilds communicate with each other and the community. Also, It would be nice to have a zone that isn't dead after a month of its release. | |} ---- I myself played on Luminai until one or two weeks ago. I feel bad for leaving it but it's sooooo good to have a ton of players around, a guild and open world PvP (oh the irony...). Once the playerbase got a lot bigger I'll switch servers for sure but until then I'll recommend disabling the PvP servers or at least give a little warning message to new players when they choose a PvP server (the PvE server should be the default one). Just this^ I would prefer not to have a PvP server for a while too. Relaunch them with suggestions made by people like Arachnaas or Sylqt . It would be a quick and easy option to get rid of the ever ongoing is this game dead? and so on threads/questions. (We would get some people saying "see, I said this game is dead bla bla bla" but a fault confessed is half redressed) | |} ---- ---- ---- Your queue times are pretty bad. I've had no such problems. Maybe you live on the moon or something and you're queuing when everyone who has a job is working or sleeping. Honestly the game itself is well-made, fun, and stable. Better than any other MMO on the market in my opinion. Superior combat, harder raids, more skill in PvP. The issues you have with it (low pop) has nothing to do with the game itself, only the players, and the game's negative reputation from its very rocky launch and its new IP. Humans are fickle things when it comes to new IPs. If this game had a big brand name attached to its title, it would have done better. And adding a rocky launch on top of a new non-brand-name title is just asking for disaster. | |} ---- ---- ---- I can't play any other MMOs now. Trust me I've tried. Wildstar has ruined me for all current MMOs. From now on the only MMO's I can play are action based combat ones that make use of telegraphs, double jumps and dashes | |} ---- I could argue that your post is typical hater bullshit response. And we both get nowhere. | |} ---- Yea but he's not wrong, no matter how much it does or does not offend you | |} ---- it should be noted that although they increased the bandwitdh of gear score they allow to queue together (i believe it goes up to 1000 gear score now) there is still a priority system. they will take people with lower gearscore into a bg than someone with a higher gear score. now that isnt to say that people with higher gearscore wont ever get in games but if there is 11 people in a queue and you got 255 gear score you will lose that battle every time. hopefully they remove gearscore past a certain # with the rally system. | |} ----